His Excellency, Engineer Abdullahi Sule recently appeared as guest on Politics Today, a political discussion programme on Channels Television, where he fielded questions on President Muhammadu Buhari’s New Year message to Nigerians, as well as address the issue of implementation of the N30, 000 new minimum wage in Nasarawa State, among other issues. The Directorate of Strategic Communication and Press Affairs to His Excellency, monitored the programme from Lafia and brought to our readers excerpts:
PART ONE
A lot of things Nigerians are talking about today, is the message President Muhammadu Buhari has given to Nigerians on New Year day. It was a message that started with giving Nigerians hope and if I may start this conversation, by asking you, your party, the APC, is telling Nigerians now that they should have hope in the year the new we are now entering and a very interesting decade that we have entered into. What do you think can give Nigerians that confidence, that your party, the APC can bring that kind of hope that Nigerians demand and they are looking forward to at the moment?
Happy New Year and thank you for having me once again. I thank you for that and I thank those listening and those watching. Going back to your question, it’s a question of hope. Hope has to do with the credibility of the people making that hope. Hope has to do with the capacity and the competence of the people who are making those kinds of promises. President Muhammadu Buhari has been known to be a credible person, have been known to be somebody who is incorruptible, has been known to be somebody who will make policies and keep to those policies. Therefore, going back to three promises this President made when he came into power in 2015, fighting corruption, working on the economy and issues of security. Today, if may have one or two issues here and there, has security improved? Yes. A lot of security issues have improved in this country. How about the economy, has the economy improved? Definitely. The issues of the economy have improved. How about the issue of fighting corruption? We have seen a President who is fighting people from his own party, and people who are outside his own party. We are seeing the President who believes in the rule of law and is allowing the law takes it course. We are seeing an administration that truly believes in the direction he has taken and has the capacity to handle issues accordingly. Therefore, if such an administration makes policies and gives Nigerians hope and definitely, those are the reasons why Nigerians we believe in those kinds of hopes. That’s where we stand.
One of the most important thing to sell by any leader to any people, is hope. Because you need hope to stay alive and to stay on course. But the question is, for example, when lots of Nigerians talk about the debt burden and some of the promises the APC made at the campaign and what they have seen in the last four years of the Buhari administration and what they are seeing when we talk about the issues of the rule of law, and talk about the issues of economy and talk about the issues of infrastructure, for example, there were allegations about the issues of the debt burden. Some people were not comfortable that the fact that Nigeria is having debt to bear at the moment. How do you react? Most of the time when you sit at the NEC, don’t it come to you as a concern, as a state governor, that your party at the helm of affairs at the centre is probably leaving Nigeria to have a debt crisis. Does it give you concern?
Coming from my background, debt doesn’t scare me. It’s what we do with the debt that scares me. Today, if you take a look at some of the states, without mentioning any particular state in number, take a look at some of the states, some of the most indebted states in the federation are seen to have economic growth, economic buoyancy and economic activities going on, some of the states that are not having any debts whatsoever, are the states that are actually backward and facing illiteracy and facing problems with health, are facing problems with industrialization. The issue is not about how much debt you take, what did you do with that debt? And the issue also, going back, if you look at, everyone that you go to, including Muhammadu Buhari’s enemies, will tell you that the man is incorruptible, they may bring some of his other weaknesses, but they will mention that the person is incorruptible. If that is the case, then you are talking about an administration that is going to take debt and will not ask anybody to keep 10 percent, 20 percent, 40 percent of the debt somewhere outside the country for them. So, if at all Nigeria is taking debt and looking at the cashflow, looking at the future of Nigeria, in fact, Nigeria should take the debt for the next ten years, so that in the next ten years, we don’t take any debt, so that even if Muhammadu Buhari leaves, we are not taking any debt. That way we know that the money we are taking will be utilized for what we have. Look today at the capital market, look at today what is happening at our airports, look at the infrastructure, look at the activities going on the rail lines, look at the activities going on within the economy within the area of agriculture, look at the area that we have done all the backward integration, rice, in cement, in sugar and the rest of that. Look at some of the things we have done. Of course, you take the debt but you are applying the debt to do something. The debt in some of the cities like Lagos, have been applied in some areas that you can see clearly in Lagos. Is Lagos the same today before it has all the debt it has taken? It’s not about taking the debt that matters, it’s what you do with the debt that actually matters.
One of the things, for instance, the Minister of Information said, they have realized that debt servicing is a major problem. In the 2020 budget, over N2trn out of the over N10trn budgeted for the nation, will be spent on servicing debt. That is a humongous percentage of our budget. It’s as scary, are you saying that the federal government can go on and borrow as much as they can?
No, not at all. I’m not saying that the federal government can go and borrow as a whole. But let’s look at the last point you made and I love that. You mentioned that we are going to service the debt that was taken. When was that debt taken? If you look at some of these debts that were taken, the monies were not even properly applied in Nigeria. We took debts and actually most of these monies were the monies were corrupted upon. And those were the kinds of debts that we have to service today. I am talking about debt that you can take to apply properly to the areas. This debts that you are talking about that we are servicing were taken actually since maybe 2007, 2011, before 2015. A lots of these debts that were taken. If you look at the debts that are taken right now, they are being specifically applied for specific projects. You will see debt taken purely for the rail line, debt taken purely for the roads, from this place to that place, for power, for petroleum development and for things like that. But we have taken a lot of debts in the past, cash that have come into the country and we have done nothing with it, maybe politics. Those are the debts that we are servicing and that should worry us and they are worrisome. And I strongly believe we should go back to some of those debtors and renegotiate, similar to what happened to us in the past during Obasanjo’s administration. Because a lots of those monies, some of them didn’t even come into Nigeria but we are servicing them. Today. And government is continuum, you don’t have a choice, you must service them. But nobody will give you debt if you don’t have the capacity to pay the debt. That’s the fact that I think you have to, I think you know this more than I do.
One important thing again in this matter, is the fact that, the confidence that the people should have in their leaders. Do you think that Nigerians are confident about the handling of the economy by the Buhari administration?
I think a lot of things are changing. Definitely, you see the way our economy is being handled, competence is number one. If you have the proper competence, you know, definitely the world is not about you being satisfied but the way the world looks at you. Because they are the people who are going to lend you money. Do they feel comfortable that you are managing your economy? Do they feel comfortable about that? To a certain extent, yes. You will see some level of, yes there is room for improvement, yes, we do not have the kind of people we had in the past, the Soludo’s of the world, the Okonjo-Iweala’s of the world, because those were big names because of the places they worked before coming in here. But we also have people within the system, who have acquired competences, acquired experiences, acquired the knowledge and they are managing the economy. And so far, so good from what we are seeing from the economy. Is the economy being properly managed? Yes. Is there corruption in the economy? Not as it use to. We used to have terrible corruption in the economy and I think everybody can testify to that. Today, the body language of the President spells fighting corruption. People who are really corrupt are afraid to close to the President. I am not saying that people are not corrupt these days, of course people are corrupt these days, it’s going to take a while to wipe out corruption in Nigeria, there is no doubt about it. But the people who should take the chunk of the corruption, are actually fighting the corruption because the body language the man is to fight corruption.
One thing again the President mentioned is the fact that he is going to stand down in 2023. The PDP have said look, yes, of course you have to go, that’s what the constitution says. He Is ruling out the issue of the third term agenda. What do you make of that kind of statement, politically speaking and probably, we will put you on the spot, where do you think the presidency should go come 2023? Which region of the country?
Okay, you asked two questions. First, let me go with the first one. The first one is about the President leaving. In fact, whether the President says whether he is leaving or not, people like us believe he will leave. Because of his credibility and his rule of law. And he is ensuring that he will live by the constitution. This is not a President that will begin to manoeuvre and change constitution in order for him to remain in power. People like us believe in that. Whether he says it or he doesn’t says it, we strongly believe. And this is not the first time I have heard the President saying he is leaving in 2023 anyway. I believe in that. Coming back to the other question…
Before you get to that, does is mean there was actual third term agenda? Was is that there was actual third term agenda within the APC? That rumour, was is true?
I think the APC has never even thought of it, if it did, I was not part of it. I don’t think the APC has ever even thought about it because the man that you are talking about will not accept it. I don’t think anybody will carry this type of news and face the President about third term agenda. If there was such a news in the APC, I have never been part of it and I don’t think it’s going to fly.
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